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ReflectioN
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Curate
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Reged: 09/11/03
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I've been applying some textures with size 512 x 512 to meshes like walls and such. However when you approach this wall from a distance, walking towards it, the textures seem to "shimmer" a bit. Is this because normally the game engine can only handle textures of size 256 x 256? Does it contantly has to resize my 512 x 512 textures?
I kinda like the improved sharpness on 512...
Any light on the matter much appreciated.
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Try toning down the contrast on your texture. If that doesn't work I'll take a look at some point tomorrow if you like
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Disciple
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512x512 textures work fine. I've done them myself, and there are some in the stock game too.
Are you using mipmaps? You may be seeing the swap if the shimmer happens briefly at a certain distance. If it's more of a constant shimmer as you move it's some prob with your mesh, or you have two in the same exact spot. It's not the fact that it's 512 tho.
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ReflectioN
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Well, I need to investigate some further.
Here's what I just found: when I change the texture size from 512x512 to 256x256, it works fine when it's a tga file. As soon as I change them into a dds file with ddstool (so I end up with a 256x256.dds file) it starts to shimmer again?
kinda baffling...
I'll report back when I've done some more trying out and testing. Haven't trid the contrast-tone-down yet.
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Creator of the Créhange Manor mod, find it at Summit, GamersRoam and Euro-Morrowind.
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Sounds very much like its mip-map flickering since you don't get it with the tga's. If the contrast thing doesn't work - try saving them as dds with no mip-maps and see what happens.
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ReflectioN
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Curate
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Quote:
Sounds very much like its mip-map flickering since you don't get it with the tga's. If the contrast thing doesn't work - try saving them as dds with no mip-maps and see what happens.
Tried it out and the contrast thing does not work.
Now, how do I save a tga as dds without mipmap? I've got evaluation version Irfanview, MS Paint, and I use ddstool to save a tga into a dds. Not world class at all but until now it did the job.
Do I need another proggie?
cheers.
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Creator of the Créhange Manor mod, find it at Summit, GamersRoam and Euro-Morrowind.
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No you shouldn't need anything else.
Make your texture, then when you come to save it as a dds, you should get an option box for nvidia dds settings. Select the "no mipmaps" option in the second box down and click save. That should do it I think.
If not and you still get the flickering, just stick to a tga texture - you don't gain that much from saving as dds.
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SirLuthor
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Reged: 08/27/03
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If you plan to get into some serious retexturing, I hate to say it, but that lot you just mentioned, I don't think it will do too well.  I would strongly suggest PaintShop Pro, as although it doesn't do as much as Photoshop, it doesn't cost nearly as much  And ou can try out the trial version before hand, to see if you like it
Also, both of those programs can use NVidia's DDS plugin, which, if I remember correctly, allows one to set a number of things when saving as .DDS, such as mip maps.
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Yeah I agree with SirLuthor. The only drawback I have found with PS Pro is that it seems to have trouble dealing with and saving transparent alpha channels, particularly in dds format.
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SirLuthor
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How is it possible to have trouble with Alpha Channels? I have never had any trouble at all with Alpha's using PSP... What exactly doesn't work for you?
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I have PSPro 8 and DXT tools plugin but every time I try and make a texture with transparent alpha, it shows up in the game as a big white patch. I either have to use Adobe to save it or make an alpha map with DxtBmp
?? Any clues SL?
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SirLuthor
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I don't knowwhat you could possibly be doing ot get it to do that, but try this:
Select all the areas you want to be invisible
Invert Selection
Save Selection to Alpha Channel
Then just save as a .tga file, and it should work for you
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Cool - thanks SL. We never stop trying and learning 
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SirLuthor
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Yup
But how exactly were you doing it before?
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Using transparent layers and saving as DXT3 - I've only recently been playing with alpha's so I'm on a learning curve. 
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ReflectioN
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Curate
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Quote:
If you plan to get into some serious retexturing, I hate to say it, but that lot you just mentioned, I don't think it will do too well.
Well, you'll be surprised how far I got with these simple thingies, All I do is grab a texture from the Internet and apply it on a mesh with NIFTexture. And if it weren't for this shimmer problem, I'd be settled.
I don't play around with alpha blending, translucency stuff etc. , I'll just leave that to the experts.
Right, I've downloaded PSP 8 Trial, but I can't seem to find the Nividia dds plugin?
And to give an example af "cost cutting" , a 512x512 tga file is 769 kb, resaved to a dds file it's only 129.
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Creator of the Créhange Manor mod, find it at Summit, GamersRoam and Euro-Morrowind.
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SirLuthor
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There is a link on the for the DDS plugin here: DDS Plugin
I know it says for Photoshop, but most all Photoshop plugins work for PSP as well
Quote:
Well, you'll be surprised how far I got with these simple thingies, All I do is grab a texture from the Internet and apply it on a mesh with NIFTexture. And if it weren't for this shimmer problem, I'd be settled.
I don't play around with alpha blending, translucency stuff etc. , I'll just leave that to the experts.
That's all well and good, but what about when you want to start making your own textures, instead of using ones you find? What then? 
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ReflectioN
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Quote:
That's all well and good, but what about when you want to start making your own textures, instead of using ones you find? What then?
What then? easy, I don't plan on making my own textures...
OK, I've got PSP and DDS plugin, saved a tga texture as a dds with no mip maps enabled in the save options dialog. However, it still shimmers ingame. Do I need to save with different options? The dds save options box gives me a lot of choice in DXT formats or 16 ,24 bit this and that. How do I effectively disable the mipmaps? (if the mipmaps are what is causing this problem... I honestly don't know, I'll just go along with people in this thread.)
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Creator of the Créhange Manor mod, find it at Summit, GamersRoam and Euro-Morrowind.
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ReflectioN
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Curate
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a small and modest bump...
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Creator of the Créhange Manor mod, find it at Summit, GamersRoam and Euro-Morrowind.
Creator of the Castle Vianden mod, find it at Euro-Morrowind.
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I use dxt3 format to save. Try clicking generate mip-maps when you save them and then test it in game. Its a pain I know but trial and error is the only way sometimes.
If it still doesn't work, send me the model and texture so I can have a look
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Disciple
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Can you describe this shimmer? Does it happen all the time? When you move? Only at certain distances? What mesh is this on? Did you try your texture on a different mesh? Did you try your mesh with a different texture? Are you positive you don't have two meshes with a face in the same spot, or two objects in the exact same spot?
The mip swap should happen at distances of 768, 1792, 3840, and 7168. When you reach those distances away from your mesh it swaps in a lower-res texture. If you have a vid card that filters this it should be a smooth fade. If your shimmer happens all the time, and not just at those distances, it's something other than mipmaps.
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I might have to pick your brains about this kind of thing myself one day soon dongle. 
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Sure, anytime. Mip distances in particular? I have a mod around here somewhere to test that. Interested?
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Indeed I am, good sir.
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ReflectioN
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Quote:
I use dxt3 format to save. Try clicking generate mip-maps when you save them and then test it in game. Its a pain I know but trial and error is the only way sometimes.
This seems to work!! Tested it with a texture that goes an many different meshes and no shimmer! Phew, keep my fingers crossed.
And Dongle, just to be complete, here's my filled out questionnaire:
Quote:
Can you describe this shimmer?
It's a shimmer...
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Does it happen all the time?
Yep, when I move towards it, right until I'm real close by.
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When you move?
Yes, when I move, standing still with no looking around means no shimmer.
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Only at certain distances?
No, all the time when I'm moving.
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What mesh is this on?
It's on outside Walls and Keeps (Imperial stuff)
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Did you try your texture on a different mesh?
Yes, it's on many different meshes, all shimmering.
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Did you try your mesh with a different texture?
Only standard Bethsoft textures, they work fine.
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Are you positive you don't have two meshes with a face in the same spot, or two objects in the exact same spot?
If you mean by this if doubling occured, then yes, I'm positive this is not the case, checked that extensively.
Quote:
The mip swap should happen at distances of 768, 1792, 3840, and 7168. When you reach those distances away from your mesh it swaps in a lower-res texture. If you have a vid card that filters this it should be a smooth fade. If your shimmer happens all the time, and not just at those distances, it's something other than mipmaps.
OK, it doesn't happen exclusively at the mentioned distances, so it's something else than mipmaps. Luckely the tip by VagaBondAngel worked the first time: resave a tga file as dds DXT 3 with the generate mipmaps option enabled in Paint Shop Pro 8. Will do some more testing with this.
VagaBondAngel, Dongle, thanks for the answers and tips sofar...
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Creator of the Créhange Manor mod, find it at Summit, GamersRoam and Euro-Morrowind.
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Certainly sounds like a problem with the texture, but not a mipmap problem. I'm honestly at a loss as to why a DTX3 wouldn't shimmer, when another format does. Or why an allowed texture size will, when another won't. None of that should make any difference at all.
Maybe some problem with your vid setup . . . try updating card drivers and DirectX? I'm stumped otherwise.
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ReflectioN
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Well, once you find a small problem, you take a look around and you find more problems... I have the distinct impression that some Bethesda textures are also shimmering. So I got into thinking about, indeed Dongle, video card set up and drivers.
Now, since I'm a Quake boy from years past, I've always updated video card drivers and direct X, but who knows, I'm using the latest Omega Catalyst drivers on an ATI 9700. I'll play around in the Direct3D control panel, change some stuff with Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic filtering and so , seee if that makes a change.
... to be continued...
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Creator of the Créhange Manor mod, find it at Summit, GamersRoam and Euro-Morrowind.
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JCSpencer
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Quote:
Yeah I agree with SirLuthor. The only drawback I have found with PS Pro is that it seems to have trouble dealing with and saving transparent alpha channels, particularly in dds format.
Hmm, maybe this is the problem I'm having. I have PSP8 with the DDS plugin, and I have converted files to DDS recently. However, when I tried to save a BMP as DDS today, it gives me an error saying the plugin can't read the format and refuses to save the file as DDS. I noticed when I opened my BMP with DxtBMP that it has an alpha-channel (I guess). I didn't make this texture, only recolored it. It's the textures from WormGod's dragon. At any rate, is it giving me an error because I am trying to save a BMP that has an alpha channel? Last time I saved as DDS it gave me this screen with all these choices that I had no clue what they meant, but this time it just gives me an error, no options screen.
I've only had PSP8 for about a week, and know very little about it except for how to recolor and apply special effects (  am I good or what).
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Varana
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Hmm... the problem with DDS and PSP8 for me always was that it saved the image just fine, only messed up the transparency.
However, BMP with alpha channel shuldn't be possible.
I don't have MW Advanced, so I can't look atm... can you save the BMP file in PSP's native format (.pspimage), then open that and save as DDS?
A lot of hassle, but I don't know what's wrong there... that DDS options screen confuses me, too.
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